I can only agree with Brian that the Fedora Boards recent decision to patch out Codina is doing nothing to help Fedora rid itself of the image that we are not user friendly. The argument seems to be that Codina is non-free software, which is bullshit, it’s free software – it aids in informing about codec support and offers a way to install proprietary codecs legally, this in the current state of affairs is non-free software for legal reasons. Codina itself solved the problem of turning what was a nasty technical failure message into a nice piece of education and optional help to get the support required, now it is manadated that we go back to the stone ages.
This seems more like waging a war on non-free softwares right to existance than protecting freedom to me. All the while introducing a functionality regression from previous our Fedora release, and a very visible one to users that is.
skvidal said,
15. March 2008 at 15:03
David,
No one is suggesting that codeina is non-free software. Nor are we removing codeina. We are simply patching out the non-free codecs/plugins which are offered for sale in the codeina interface. The free codecs/plugins are allowed and encouraged.
It’s important to have the facts.
-sv
davidnielsen said,
15. March 2008 at 18:13
So what then exactly is the point of Codina, you won’t let it fetch the free codec implementation for patent problems and the non-free because you disagree with them.. what then is Codina useful for, it is nothing more than an error message now.
Plain fact, you introduced a feature regression, and you do the rest of us who spend out lifes advocating Fedora for desktop use a disservice by removing the only tool we had to give them multimedia support in an easy manner. What do I tell users now.. that Fedora simply doesn’t care even to provide the option to install this support legally or that they should learn to live without this?
What do you expect we advocates to tell users now? Honestly, of the 3 options we had, one is deemed illegal, the other you decide as being immoral, that leaves us with “sorry, we just don’t care”.
quaid said,
15. March 2008 at 19:04
You are still incorrect in the facts. This is the third, highly visible comment or blog post you have made that is incorrect. Can you please fix this?
1. The patched codeina in Fedora 9 is going to have the ability to fetch the open source but patent encumbered MP3 plugin. This is specifically to make life easier for the end users who are either in countries where they are not restricted by the patent (Germans take note, this is not you anymore) or who are willing to take the risk. Unlike in the past, codeina actually explains this before pointing users at the risky software. You may not recall, and I may be geting these details incorrect, but codeina arose partially out of the CodecBuddy initiative started by Fedora to not have the ugly missing codec message. It is specifically a feature to help end-users.
2. It was a bug to introduce codeina with support for fetching non-free software. Freedom is a feature of Fedora, in case you forgot. That means that codeina, as shipped in Fedora 8, was a feature regression … it hurt the cause of freedom.
3. Tell users that Fedora cares about their freedom more than their right to screw themselves over without knowing they are doing it. Those users can install the open source MP3 codec with ease, then follow out to the Fluendo webshop to get more for pay.
4. You can’t transact business through codeina in Fedora 8, you have to go out to the Fluendo webshop. All the patching does, really, is introduce one more click in the stream for users.
5. Fluendo has had plenty of time to make codeina able to remove and drop-in support for various codecs. Instead they hard-coded in their own webshop and left it at that. Now, if they want the functionality to return for users, they are going to need to update codeina to support this drop-in. At that time, you can take on the personal risk (or no risk) of pointing users at … what they’ll be able to find through codeina … the Fluendo webshop, where they would be able to install an additional codec repository to work through codeina.
5. Patent-encumbered software is not deemed illegal by the Fedora Project Board; sorry, we inherit that one from the countries we live in. As you are well aware, Fedora cannot promote patent-encumbered software. Unless we re-incorporate in the Isle of Man or something.
6. Despite the fact that the open source codec that remains linked in codeina is patent encumbered, it is still there for those who are not at risk or willing to take the personal risk.
7. Tell users, “Fedora cares about your long-term freedom much more than short-term inconvenience. This application tries to explain that a bit, and it provides you a way to get an open source method for playing MP3 files. You are then free to visit Fluendo to purchase more codecs, if you wish.”
8. I don’t think anyone is saying non-free software is ‘immoral’ but we are saying that we won’t ship it, enable it, or prefer it in Fedora. Sorry if that is not what you approve of. You are welcome to run for the Board, help lead Fedora, and change everyone’s mind about shipping non-free software. Good luck!
So, ready to write your next blog post, “David Nielsen, Super Master of the Epic Fail”?
davidnielsen said,
15. March 2008 at 20:19
I never meant to imply that the board deemed the free implementations illegal, as you can see from reading back my posts in the past I have a good understanding on the legal issues in question. Codina was a happy medium between the needs of our users and the freedom we cheerish. As an educational tool Codina worked nicely in showing the users the effect of us not being able to ship support.. live without or face a pricetag plus some discomfort. As much as words work to educate illustration and the willingness to expose the alternative to freedom works better.. for much the same reason as articles on starving children don’t work half as well as a picture of their tortured little bodies.
We can’t really ship the mp3 plugin either if we want to educate against patents as it is also patented – Fluendo just pays the fee every time you download it. I don’t see how this doesn’t conflict with the new stated goal. You can’t have it both ways.
Also if you know me, you will realise that few people are more pro freedom that I am, I donate to the fsf and eff every month and have done so for a long time, I have spend the last 10 years promoting Linux without getting paid a penny and I am even the guy who got so outraged at the proposal to include proprietary drivers in Ubuntu that I started a pledge to give funds to the Nouveau developers. But I do draw the line when it comes to actively working against our users in this way since the out of the box experience with codina is not in any way in conflict with the ideals of freedom, it just solves the problems we face in a neat manner for all parties. Also naturally in the process hurting the work of Fedora advocates everywhere, you know the people who spend their time marketing this work to average users – in use Codina was a tool to at least justify the position on multimedia support to people who don’t yet get software patents and why they are harmful.
At any rate calling the support for downloading encumbered codecs a bug is weak, it was the entire point of Codina when it was proposed. Allowing an interface to enable users to get the support they needed without encumbering the Fedoras out of the box freedom or endangering us legally. Now it’s just a modified error message.
The Grand Fallacy » What does it profit a man? said,
15. March 2008 at 22:42
[...] solution for die-hard MP3 users. The Board feels that success is worth building on. Karsten said as much in a blog comment earlier today. But you can get the exact same results from Codeina by following [...]